Discussion:
Smokefree DSB
(too old to reply)
Lennart Petersen
2006-10-31 22:06:38 UTC
Permalink
--
As I can see the Danish Railways DSB have decided to ban smoking in trains
from January 2007. Big surprise as Danish trains for a long time was a
bastion for smokers and also a surprise as they recently ordered new trains
, the IC4 , with smoking compartments although reduced. DSB experience is
that smoking seats are the last reserved in the trains.
Togene bliver røgfri fra den 7. januar 2007


17-10-2006 10:02



Fra den 7. januar er det helt slut med at ryge i alle DSB's tog.


Alle DSB's tog bliver helt røgfri fra køreplansskiftet den 7. januar
2007, og DSB kommer dermed Folketingets forventede forslag om rygeforbud på
alle offentlige arbejdspladser i forkøbet.

Forandringen vil for mange kunder ikke blive så stor. Allerede i
februar i år blev der som bekendt indført nye rygeregler, der begrænsede
antallet af rygerpladser fra ca. 25 procent til de nuværende 8-10 procent.
Og selv om der i dag kun er få rygerpladser, er det typisk stadig de sidste
pladser, der bliver udsolgt.

Ledige rygerpladser
- Reduktionen af rygerpladserne gik forbavsende godt. De første dage
var der en sand folkevandring mod rygerpladserne, men meget hurtigt
stabiliserede situationen sig, og selv i dag er der som oftest ledig
kapacitet på rygerpladserne. Kun når toget er helt udsolgt, er alle
rygerpladser også solgt, fortæller Bjarne Lindberg Bak, sekretariatschef i
DSB Salg.

De fleste kunder indstillede sig tilsyneladende hurtigt på ikke at
ryge på togturen, og Bjarne Lindberg Bak ser den gradvise indførelse af
indskrænkning af rygemulighederne som et vigtigt element i den proces.

- Kundeundersøgelser forud for de nye rygeregler i februar viste, at
hvis vi på det tidspunkt havde indført et totalt forbud, ville det have
kostet os kunder. Når vi gør togene røgfri til januar, regner vi - ud fra de
erfaringer, vi nu har - ikke med at miste kunder, siger Bjarne Lindberg Bak.

På de udendørs perroner i fri luft og på overdækkede perroner som i
Århus og København er det Banedanmark, der beslutter, om man må ryge eller
ikke. I følge Henrik Strunge fra Banedanmarks kommunikationsafdeling er der
ingen planer om at ændre de nuværende rygeregler, hvor det er tilladt at
ryge på udendørsarealerne.

Lotte Malmgren

Fremtidens rygeregler - regeringens forslag - fra Indenrigsministeriet
hjemmeside


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Ray McDermott
2006-10-31 23:28:47 UTC
Permalink
Is smoking now prohibited on Kobenhavn station?

In my experience, this is the dirtiest main station in Europe, cigarette
butts and packets everywhere (not to mention beer cans and food
wrappers) a disgusting place.

I wonder if other European railways will follow suit. Had problems
getting non-smoking seats on some DB trains.

Ray


Lennart Petersen wrote:
Jeremy Double
2006-11-01 00:59:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray McDermott
I wonder if other European railways will follow suit. Had problems
getting non-smoking seats on some DB trains.
Of course SNCF and SBB/CFF are already non-smoking...

I'm also waiting for DB to ban smoking. I also had problems booking
non-smoking seats on some ICE trains in the summer.
--
Jeremy M Double
Email: initials plus surname (one word) at btinternet dot com
German steam photos at http://tinyurl.com/frrx8
Flosta
2006-11-01 07:50:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeremy Double
Post by Ray McDermott
I wonder if other European railways will follow suit. Had problems
getting non-smoking seats on some DB trains.
Of course SNCF and SBB/CFF are already non-smoking...
I'm also waiting for DB to ban smoking. I also had problems booking
non-smoking seats on some ICE trains in the summer.
DB has recently forbidden smoke in restaurant cars.

Italy was probably the first country in Europe to totally ban smoke on
trains.

Regards
Flosta
Ray McDermott
2006-11-01 09:22:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Flosta
Post by Jeremy Double
Post by Ray McDermott
I wonder if other European railways will follow suit. Had problems
getting non-smoking seats on some DB trains.
Of course SNCF and SBB/CFF are already non-smoking...
I'm also waiting for DB to ban smoking. I also had problems booking
non-smoking seats on some ICE trains in the summer.
DB has recently forbidden smoke in restaurant cars.
Buon giorno Flosta! This ban did not stop ICE restaurant car crew from
smoking whilst serving me a few weeks ago!
Rode in compartment behind ICE driver for view down track at speed until
a passenger lit up a big cigar.
The smell of smoke permeates through to the no-smoking cars. Nice train
otherwise; about time DB caught up with its neighbours.
Ray
Steve M
2006-11-05 15:31:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Flosta
Post by Jeremy Double
Post by Ray McDermott
I wonder if other European railways will follow suit. Had problems
getting non-smoking seats on some DB trains.
Of course SNCF and SBB/CFF are already non-smoking...
I'm also waiting for DB to ban smoking. I also had problems booking
non-smoking seats on some ICE trains in the summer.
DB has recently forbidden smoke in restaurant cars.
Italy was probably the first country in Europe to totally ban smoke on
trains.
Regards
Flosta
Indeed, but after riding around Italy by train over the last week, there
seemed to be more smokers having a cheeky cigarette in the vestibules /
toilets than any other smoke-free rail network I've used. The staff
always turned a blind eye.

Cheers

Steve M
Lennart Petersen
2006-11-05 16:13:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Flosta
Post by Jeremy Double
Post by Ray McDermott
I wonder if other European railways will follow suit. Had problems
getting non-smoking seats on some DB trains.
Of course SNCF and SBB/CFF are already non-smoking...
I'm also waiting for DB to ban smoking. I also had problems booking
non-smoking seats on some ICE trains in the summer.
DB has recently forbidden smoke in restaurant cars.
Italy was probably the first country in Europe to totally ban smoke on
trains.
Regards
Flosta
While SJ was probably first with a ban on smoking in the dining cars already
1976.
But that said it was partly for commercial reasons as there isn't much
revenue from a remaining guest with a fag and a cup of coffee....
ALAN HARRISON
2006-11-01 12:49:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeremy Double
Post by Ray McDermott
I wonder if other European railways will follow suit. Had problems
getting non-smoking seats on some DB trains.
Of course SNCF and SBB/CFF are already non-smoking...
And all British train operating companies. The last one to fall was GNER.
The memory of a relatively short trip from Darlington to York in one of
their smoking cars still sticks in my throat. The catalyst was the general
Scottish ban on smoking, when the company decided it was impracticable to
tell passngers on a London-Edinburgh train they could smoke as far as
Berwick.

Alan Harrison
Markku Grönroos
2006-11-01 13:03:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by ALAN HARRISON
Post by Jeremy Double
Post by Ray McDermott
I wonder if other European railways will follow suit. Had problems
getting non-smoking seats on some DB trains.
Of course SNCF and SBB/CFF are already non-smoking...
And all British train operating companies. The last one to fall was GNER.
The memory of a relatively short trip from Darlington to York in one of
their smoking cars still sticks in my throat. The catalyst was the general
Scottish ban on smoking, when the company decided it was impracticable to
tell passngers on a London-Edinburgh train they could smoke as far as
Berwick.
Do you still have those all famous coaches in Britain whose doors have
handles only outside?
Neil Williams
2006-11-01 13:33:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Markku Grönroos
Do you still have those all famous coaches in Britain whose doors have
handles only outside?
Yep. Mainly found on the Midland Main Line and Great Western these
days.

Neil
ALAN HARRISON
2006-11-01 16:28:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Markku Grönroos
Do you still have those all famous coaches in Britain whose doors have
handles only outside?
Yep. Mainly found on the Midland Main Line and Great Western these
days.

These operators make considerable use of Inter City 125s on long distance
runs. These have two tractor units, one at each end, with teh carriages
being Mark III stock, the last to have such doors. They are now officially
(and sensibly) considered to be hauled stock with two locomotives rather
than each set constituting a DMU. I think you will also find them in a more
traditional hauled stock configuration, with an electric loco at one end and
probably a driving trailer at the other, on the London Liverpool Street to
Norwich service operate by One.

I would say with reasonable confidence that all such stock remaining in use
north of the Thames now has central locking, so that a passenger can't open
a door until the train is at rest in a station. I can't recall seeing any
former Southern Region slam door stock recently, but if it survives, this
would not have central locking.

Alan Harrison
Theo Markettos
2006-11-02 10:43:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by ALAN HARRISON
I would say with reasonable confidence that all such stock remaining in use
north of the Thames now has central locking, so that a passenger can't open
a door until the train is at rest in a station. I can't recall seeing any
former Southern Region slam door stock recently, but if it survives, this
would not have central locking.
There are only three units of former Southern Region slam door stock left on
the mainline - two 3CIGs being used on the Brockenhurst-Lymington Pier
branch have been fitted with central locking. The other, 4VEP 3417, is out
of service without locking and South West Trains are trying to find a
preservation group to take it.

Theo
K
2006-11-01 13:53:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeremy Double
Post by Ray McDermott
I wonder if other European railways will follow suit. Had problems
getting non-smoking seats on some DB trains.
Of course SNCF and SBB/CFF are already non-smoking...
As are NMBS/SNCB and NS.
Neil Williams
2006-11-01 14:15:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by K
As are NMBS/SNCB and NS.
Good, especially in the former case, where the "smoking compartment"
was just the last bay of seats, thus making the entire vehicle
effectively a smoking compartment.

I used to hate the DB loco-hauled open saloons for exactly the same
reason.

Neil
Paul Dwerryhouse
2006-11-01 20:38:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeremy Double
Post by Ray McDermott
I wonder if other European railways will follow suit. Had problems
getting non-smoking seats on some DB trains.
Of course SNCF and SBB/CFF are already non-smoking...
NS has banned smoking too, almost two years ago.
--
Paul Dwerryhouse | PGP Key ID: 0x6B91B584
Neil Williams
2006-11-01 07:43:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray McDermott
I wonder if other European railways will follow suit. Had problems
getting non-smoking seats on some DB trains.
Germany is a good couple of years behind the UK in terms of smoking
bans. In 2000, bars and clubs were often unpleasant with the fug, and
trains were roughly 1/3 smoking, while in the UK the smoke was just in
the background at most such venues and there was one smoking coach.

Neil
Andrew Price
2006-11-01 18:52:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Ray McDermott
I wonder if other European railways will follow suit. Had problems
getting non-smoking seats on some DB trains.
Germany is a good couple of years behind the UK in terms of smoking
bans.
I suspect that's because of a very powerful tobacco industry lobby.
The first thing that always strikes me on a visit to Germany is the
cigarette advertising, which has been totally banned in France for
around fifteen years now. Cigarette vending machines are also still
all over the place, making it difficult to discourage children from
smoking.
Phil Richards
2006-11-01 08:54:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray McDermott
I wonder if other European railways will follow suit. Had problems
getting non-smoking seats on some DB trains.
Many more European railways are non-smoking, in fact DB are lagging
behind the other big systems like SNCF, RENFE & Trenitalia who no longer
permit smoking. GNER was the last TOC in Britain to allow smoking on
board trains which was smoke free from Summer 2005 IIRC.
--
Phil Richards
London, UK
Home Page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
Eloi [entfe001]
2006-11-21 11:34:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Richards
Post by Ray McDermott
I wonder if other European railways will follow suit. Had
problems getting non-smoking seats on some DB trains.
Many more European railways are non-smoking, in fact DB are
lagging behind the other big systems like SNCF, RENFE &
Trenitalia who no longer permit smoking. GNER was the last TOC in
Britain to allow smoking on board trains which was smoke free
from Summer 2005 IIRC.
Since January 2006 the Spanish law forbids any train operator to
allow smoking on trains and stations, but RENFE forbid it on all
their trains some time before. Local networks like FGC (Barcelona)
had forbid smoking long time ago, as Metro services.

Although almost everybody does not smoke on trains, in stations
(including the underground ones) it's easy to see many people
smoking, even security staff.

By the way, which are the actual punishments by smoking on trains?
Here is 30,05 EUR (notice the ,05: it comes from the old spanish
currency, as the fare was 5.000 pesetas).
--
Permuteu entfe001 i gmail, canvieu invalid per com.
Permutad entfe001 y gmail, cambiad invalid por com.
Permute entfe001 and gmail, change invalid for com.
tobias b köhler
2006-11-27 16:17:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eloi [entfe001]
By the way, which are the actual punishments by smoking on trains?
Here is 30,05 EUR (notice the ,05: it comes from the old spanish
currency, as the fare was 5.000 pesetas).
In Hong Kong it's 5000 HKD (491 EUR by today's exchange rate) ....
(but there even eating and drinking on the train is forbidden, though
with a slightly lower penalty.)
--
tobias benjamin köhler ____________________________________ ***@uncia.de
._______..__________.._______.._________. <>_<> <>_<>
| |_| || |_| |_| || |_| || |_| |_| | .---|'"`|---. .---|'"`|---.
"-o---o-""-oo----oo-""-o---o-""-oo---oo-""o"O-OO-OO-O"o""o"O-OO-OO-O"o"_
Andrew Price
2006-11-27 19:27:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by tobias b köhler
Post by Eloi [entfe001]
By the way, which are the actual punishments by smoking on trains?
Here is 30,05 EUR (notice the ,05: it comes from the old spanish
currency, as the fare was 5.000 pesetas).
In Hong Kong it's 5000 HKD (491 EUR by today's exchange rate) ....
(but there even eating and drinking on the train is forbidden, though
with a slightly lower penalty.)
Hong Kong was where I first noted a prohibition on eating in public
transport, but I've since seen it in systems in Europe. Often quite
discreet, usually in the form of a pictogram, showing typical
fast-food packaging with a bar through it.

Hong Kong, of course, stands out because of the bossy school-mistress
type voice messages "eating is not allowed on the KCR" etc.
tobias b köhler
2006-11-27 22:10:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Price
Hong Kong was where I first noted a prohibition on eating in public
transport, but I've since seen it in systems in Europe. Often quite
discreet, usually in the form of a pictogram, showing typical
fast-food packaging with a bar through it.
Yes, but over here I know that if I eat without dropping any crumbs, I
won't get thrown out.

And of course there are the famous "Rheinbahn-Bistro" LRVs in Düsseldorf
(see some photos at
http://railfaneurope.net/pix/de/trams/Duesseldorf/B/pix.html ).
--
tobias benjamin köhler ____________________________________ ***@uncia.de
._______..__________.._______.._________. <>_<> <>_<>
| |_| || |_| |_| || |_| || |_| |_| | .---|'"`|---. .---|'"`|---.
"-o---o-""-oo----oo-""-o---o-""-oo---oo-""o"O-OO-OO-O"o""o"O-OO-OO-O"o"_
William JONES
2006-11-27 20:45:26 UTC
Permalink
Good evening,

"tobias b köhler" <***@uncia.de> a écrit dans le message de news:
a3c54$456b0fad$5473814c$***@news.chello.at...
| Eloi [entfe001] schrieb:
|
| > By the way, which are the actual punishments by smoking on trains?
| > Here is 30,05 EUR (notice the ,05: it comes from the old spanish
| > currency, as the fare was 5.000 pesetas).
|
| In Hong Kong it's 5000 HKD (491 EUR by today's exchange rate) ....
| (but there even eating and drinking on the train is forbidden, though
| with a slightly lower penalty.)

May one still breathe ?
;o))))
--
A+
William.

=============
La mort est une blessure qui ne se referme jamais ; parfois on saigne moins, c'est tout.
tobias b köhler
2006-11-27 22:08:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by William JONES
| In Hong Kong it's 5000 HKD (491 EUR by today's exchange rate) ....
| (but there even eating and drinking on the train is forbidden, though
| with a slightly lower penalty.)
May one still breathe ?
Surprisingly yes, and they even encourage it with a high-performance
airconditioning system (that works well even in very overcrowded trains).

Still I had to adjust my eating and drinking habits to the local
customs. Normally when visiting cities I take something to eat and drink
with me in a small backpack, and I consume it when I can sit down (which
is usually in trams, underground trains and other means of
transportation). In Hong Kong, everyone is running around outside and it
is hard to find a place to sit down and take a break anywhere - except
in the MTR, KCR, tram or whatever - but there it's not allowed to eat .....

I hope to have more time for the city next time I'm there for business.
Next time I'll just go to a restaurant, there are plenty and they're not
really expensive ....

By the way, I really enjoyed the cleanliness of HK - no garbage, dog poo
or graffiti anywhere. HK is still a lot more "civilised" from a western
perspective than Shenzhen .... you notice it for example in the driving
style in the streets. Now they just need to do something about the
eternal smog, and THAT's an effort that the entire region has to take .....

Something "back to topic" about rail transport: The public transport
system is really efficient, but its layout is centered on Hong Kong
Central. Which means that to go to Shenzhen directly from the airport I
had to take a minibus to the border, go through border control, then
another minibus that stops at various hotels .... They are in the
process of extending the rail system though, so I'm sure it will
eventually span the entire Hongkong/Shenzhen region.
--
tobias benjamin köhler ____________________________________ ***@uncia.de
._______..__________.._______.._________. <>_<> <>_<>
| |_| || |_| |_| || |_| || |_| |_| | .---|'"`|---. .---|'"`|---.
"-o---o-""-oo----oo-""-o---o-""-oo---oo-""o"O-OO-OO-O"o""o"O-OO-OO-O"o"_
Lennart Petersen
2006-12-01 14:53:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eloi [entfe001]
Post by Phil Richards
Post by Ray McDermott
I wonder if other European railways will follow suit. Had
problems getting non-smoking seats on some DB trains.
Many more European railways are non-smoking, in fact DB are
lagging behind the other big systems like SNCF, RENFE &
Trenitalia who no longer permit smoking. GNER was the last TOC in
Britain to allow smoking on board trains which was smoke free
from Summer 2005 IIRC.
Since January 2006 the Spanish law forbids any train operator to
allow smoking on trains and stations, but RENFE forbid it on all
their trains some time before. Local networks like FGC (Barcelona)
had forbid smoking long time ago, as Metro services.
Although almost everybody does not smoke on trains, in stations
(including the underground ones) it's easy to see many people
smoking, even security staff.
By the way, which are the actual punishments by smoking on trains?
Here is 30,05 EUR (notice the ,05: it comes from the old spanish
currency, as the fare was 5.000 pesetas).
In Sweden I would guess it's same as the fine for smoking in indoor
underground stations and other indoor public places: 800SEK or about
90EUR.
As I remember Los Angels metro had a fixed charge for anything:
smoking,littering,ticket-fraud, eating-drinking and other bad habits at
USD250
Markku Grönroos
2006-12-01 14:55:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lennart Petersen
In Sweden I would guess it's same as the fine for smoking in indoor
underground stations and other indoor public places: 800SEK or about
90EUR.
In T-Centralen there was (is?) a room which is for women only.
Lennart Petersen
2006-12-01 15:27:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Markku Grönroos
Post by Lennart Petersen
In Sweden I would guess it's same as the fine for smoking in indoor
underground stations and other indoor public places: 800SEK or about
90EUR.
In T-Centralen there was (is?) a room which is for women only.
No.
ThereŽs not , and have never been.
You've probably confused with the waiting room for ladies with children
which existed at the railway station Stockholm Central.

Tadej Brezina
2006-11-01 15:19:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray McDermott
Is smoking now prohibited on Kobenhavn station?
In my experience, this is the dirtiest main station in Europe, cigarette
butts and packets everywhere (not to mention beer cans and food
wrappers) a disgusting place.
I wonder if other European railways will follow suit. Had problems
getting non-smoking seats on some DB trains.
OeBB: Local and regional services are for some time now already smoke free.
Long distance trains still have smoking compartments. As a next step OeBB
announced, to make all retaurant cars smoke free.

regards
Tadej
--
"Vergleich es mit einer Pflanze - die wächst auch nur dann gut, wenn du
sie nicht jeden zweiten Tag aus der Erde reißt, um nachzusehen, ob sie
schon Wurzeln geschlagen hat."
<Martina Diel in d.t.r>
tobias b köhler
2006-11-01 18:07:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tadej Brezina
OeBB: Local and regional services are for some time now already smoke free.
Long distance trains still have smoking compartments. As a next step OeBB
announced, to make all retaurant cars smoke free.
Austrian restaurant cars are smoke-free since 1st october 2006.
On intercity trains, refurbished open cars are 100% non-smoking (the
"Modular" cars built in the 1990s have been non-smoking since about a
year after delivery).
Compartment cars are still roughly 1/3 smoking.
Couchette and sleeping-cars are 100% non-smoking today (until a few
years ago, smoking was allowed in some compartments in "daytime
position" only).

CityNightLine trains are all non-smoking except for the bar/lounge car
where all smokers of the train gather to smoke together at the bar -
that makes it rather unpleasant for non-smokers to eat there.

Usually it's just a change of labels, so separation walls in open cars
are not removed when they become all non-smoking.
--
tobias benjamin köhler ____________________________________ ***@uncia.de
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Jesper Lauridsen
2006-11-19 18:21:26 UTC
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Post by Lennart Petersen
As I can see the Danish Railways DSB have decided to ban smoking in trains
from January 2007. Big surprise as Danish trains for a long time was a
bastion for smokers and also a surprise as they recently ordered new trains
, the IC4 , with smoking compartments although reduced.
Recently, as in the year 2000...

Btw, why do you put the text of your articles in your signature?
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