Equipment on Latour de Carol - Barcelona

[David Eerdmans]

What kind of equipment can I expect on train 5706 Latour de Carol -
Barcelona? Hafas thinks this is an IR, what is the Spanish train category
for this train?

Thanks

Regards,
David

[tobias b koehler]

Post by David Eerdmans
What kind of equipment can I expect on train 5706 Latour de Carol -
Barcelona? Hafas thinks this is an IR, what is the Spanish train category
for this train?

http://horarios.renfe.es/hir/hjhir030.jsp?U=VR&ID=s&O=77310&D=BARCE

says it's a Delta, 2nd class only, possibility of reservation.

Could be a class 470 EMU.

[David Eerdmans]

Post by tobias b koehler

Post by David Eerdmans
What kind of equipment can I expect on train 5706 Latour de Carol -
Barcelona? Hafas thinks this is an IR, what is the Spanish train category
for this train?

http://horarios.renfe.es/hir/hjhir030.jsp?U=VR&ID=s&O=77310&D=BARCE
says it's a Delta, 2nd class only, possibility of reservation.
Could be a class 470 EMU.

Thanks.

I once used a Delta (with 470 EMU) from Llanca to Barcelona and I didn't
find it to be really comfortable. The interior would be good for a commuter
train, not for these kind of distances. The 470 also had a Cercanias
livery.

According to the European Train List, all 470 sets belong to Regionales,
while some of them have a Cercanias livery, and others have a Regionales
livery. Is there any difference in interior between them? Are "Delta"
trains always run by trains in Cercanias livery, and if so, why?

Regards,
David

[Vicente Miralles]

Post by David Eerdmans
Thanks.
I once used a Delta (with 470 EMU) from Llanca to Barcelona and I didn't
find it to be really comfortable. The interior would be good for a commuter
train, not for these kind of distances. The 470 also had a Cercanias
livery.
According to the European Train List, all 470 sets belong to Regionales,
while some of them have a Cercanias livery, and others have a Regionales
livery. Is there any difference in interior between them? Are "Delta"
trains always run by trains in Cercanias livery, and if so, why?
Regards,
David

Hello, David.

Unfortunately, the trains on this line can be operated with several
series. 440 in "cercanías" livery (and uncomfortable seats), 440 in
"regional" livery, with better seats than "cercanías" (but not
air-conditioned), and also 447, pure "cercanías" style.

470 are transformed 440, with "regional" livery, new seats,
air-conditioned, and they don't run in this line. All them are, curiously,
numerated "440" , like the "cercanías" trains. 470 is an internal Renfe
code.

Be patient on this trip.....

Best regards from Valencia, Spain
Vicente

[P.L.Guillemin]

Post by Vicente Miralles
Unfortunately, the trains on this line can be operated with several
series. 440 in "cercanías" livery (and uncomfortable seats), 440 in
"regional" livery, with better seats than "cercanías" (but not
air-conditioned),

Yes, but their seats are very comparable to those of 470s of
Regionales...


and also 447, pure "cercanías" style.

Oh really? Are they cleared to run north of Ripoll, with all those
steep gradients?

Post by Vicente Miralles
470 are transformed 440, with "regional" livery, new seats,
air-conditioned, and they don't run in this line.

They might, once all 448s have been transfered to regionales.I also
gathered that RENFE was planning to order TREs, kind of electrical
TRDs...


All them are, curiously,

Post by Vicente Miralles
numerated "440" , like the "cercanías" trains. 470 is an internal Renfe
code.
Be patient on this trip.....

But it is worth the scenery, though...


Regards.

Phil

[P.L.Guillemin]

Post by David Eerdmans

Post by tobias b koehler

Post by David Eerdmans
What kind of equipment can I expect on train 5706 Latour de Carol -
Barcelona? Hafas thinks this is an IR, what is the Spanish train

category

Post by tobias b koehler

Post by David Eerdmans
for this train?

http://horarios.renfe.es/hir/hjhir030.jsp?U=VR&ID=s&O=77310&D=BARCE
says it's a Delta, 2nd class only, possibility of reservation.
Could be a class 470 EMU.

Thanks.
I once used a Delta (with 470 EMU) from Llanca to Barcelona and I didn't
find it to be really comfortable. The interior would be good for a commuter
train, not for these kind of distances.

Agreed. 440s in original condition are even more comfortable, with
high bench seats. Still, I found it hard when travelling in the early
morning from Portbou (05.45 or 39) to Barcelona Sants (08.20,) after
leaving the Hispania from Lyon (arriving at Port Bou at 05.36 or
so...), to catch the Talgo Triana/Extremadura to Madrid and Beyond
(08.30)


The 470 also had a Cercanias

Post by David Eerdmans
livery.

Yes. Delta services from Barcelona to the border are first
"Cercanias-Rodalies" until Massanes (for Cerbere) and Vic (for Latour
de Carol), and "Regionales-Regionals" thereafter.


Are "Delta"

Post by David Eerdmans
trains always run by trains in Cercanias livery, and if so, why?

Yes, most of the time, for the reason above...

Together with the extensive renewals already under way or planned,
RENFE and the Catalonian Government are to invest in new rolling-stock
for this line, but no details available at the moment.

In the late-80s, there used to be a flagship service called "Pullman
Cerdanya" on this line, with 2-3 s/9000 coaches hauled with a 269.

There were also plans for Talgo services between Toulouse and
Barcelona via Puigcerda, but nothing has happened so far...


Best regards.

Phil

[tobias b koehler]

Post by P.L.Guillemin
There were also plans for Talgo services between Toulouse and
Barcelona via Puigcerda, but nothing has happened so far...

That would require the installation of gauge changing equipment
at La Tour de Carol (is it Latour or La Tour?) - I don't think
that the possibility exists there; it's been some time since I
was there, but I think the three gauges were completely
independent from each other.

[Lennart Petersen]

Post by tobias b koehler

Post by P.L.Guillemin
There were also plans for Talgo services between Toulouse and
Barcelona via Puigcerda, but nothing has happened so far...

That would require the installation of gauge changing equipment
at La Tour de Carol (is it Latour or La Tour?) - I don't think
that the possibility exists there; it's been some time since I
was there, but I think the three gauges were completely
independent from each other.

Can't be much of a problem as there's much space left at La Tour de Carol
station.
However the station layout is somewhat mysterious. We can leave the metre
gauge having a separate platform but broad and standard shares the same
platform.
The gauges crosses each other at the mid of the station and platform.
Broad stops at the north (!!) part of the platform and standard at the south
part (!).
So a SNCF train starts with crossing the broad g and then continues on the
standard being outside,to the west,of the broad gauge part of the platform.
And similar a southbound RENFE have to first cross standard and continues on
broad being outside the standard.

[tobias b koehler]

Post by Lennart Petersen
The gauges crosses each other at the mid of the station and platform.
Broad stops at the north (!!) part of the platform and standard at the south
part (!).
So a SNCF train starts with crossing the broad g and then continues on the
standard being outside,to the west,of the broad gauge part of the platform.
And similar a southbound RENFE have to first cross standard and continues on
broad being outside the standard.

It would be really interesting to see a track plan now ....
Perhaps it would be a good idea to untangle this?

[Erwan David]

Post by Lennart Petersen
The gauges crosses each other at the mid of the station and platform.
Broad stops at the north (!!) part of the platform and standard at the south
part (!).

Are you sure that standard gauge track to Puigcerda is not still here,
even if unused ?

[Lennart Petersen]

Post by Erwan David

Post by Lennart Petersen
The gauges crosses each other at the mid of the station and platform.
Broad stops at the north (!!) part of the platform and standard at the south
part (!).

Are you sure that standard gauge track to Puigcerda is not still here,
even if unused ?
Erwan

Possible, but standard g passenger trains stops at La Tour at the south part
of the platform.
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/florent.brisou/Toulouse-La%20Tour%20de%20Carol.htm

[Marc Van Dyck]

Post by Erwan David

Post by Lennart Petersen
The gauges crosses each other at the mid of the station and platform.
Broad stops at the north (!!) part of the platform and standard at the south
part (!).

Are you sure that standard gauge track to Puigcerda is not still here,
even if unused ?

Last time I was there, there were two parralel tracks,
one normal gauge, one braod, only the broad one was
used in regular service, but that year SNCF ran an
weekly excursion train for tourists on this line
from Ax-Les Thermes to Puigcerda, so I had the chance
to ride the normal gauge track. SNCF people at Latour
de Carol commented that it was indeed very unusual.

That must have happened about 10 years ago.

Marc.

[Erwan David]

Post by Marc Van Dyck

Post by Erwan David

Post by Lennart Petersen
The gauges crosses each other at the mid of the station and platform.
Broad stops at the north (!!) part of the platform and standard at the south
part (!).

Are you sure that standard gauge track to Puigcerda is not still here,
even if unused ?

Last time I was there, there were two parralel tracks,
one normal gauge, one braod, only the broad one was
used in regular service, but that year SNCF ran an
weekly excursion train for tourists on this line
from Ax-Les Thermes to Puigcerda, so I had the chance
to ride the normal gauge track. SNCF people at Latour
de Carol commented that it was indeed very unusual.
That must have happened about 10 years ago.

This means a gauge changing workshop could be installed between Latour
de Carol and Puigcerda.

[P.L.Guillemin]

Post by Erwan David
This means a gauge changing workshop could be installed between Latour
de Carol and Puigcerda.

Or in Puigcerda itself. There is plenty of room for that, opposite the
station building, with quite many disused sidings...


Regards.

Phil

[P.L.Guillemin]

Marc Van Dyck <***@brutele.be> wrote in message news:<***@brutele.be>...

[Charter train on UIC track Latour de Carol-Puigcerda]

Post by Marc Van Dyck
That must have happened about 10 years ago.

I don't think that would be possible nowadays in view of the current
condition of that track.

See Loading Image...

The track is no longer maintained and bushes have grown thereupon...


For a (almost) complete view of the track layout of Latour de Carol:

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/es/electric/emu/440/Cercanias/RENFE440_Lt.jpg


Best regards.

Phil

[Markus N. Giger]

Post by P.L.Guillemin
I don't think that would be possible nowadays in view of the current
condition of that track.
See

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/es/electric/emu/440/Cercanias/RENFE440_Lt.jpg

Post by P.L.Guillemin
The track is no longer maintained and bushes have grown thereupon...

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/es/electric/emu/440/Cercanias/RENFE440_Lt.jpg

???
twice the same link and I don't see what you say...

Markus, Gürbetal

[P.L.Guillemin]

Post by P.L.Guillemin

Post by P.L.Guillemin
I don't think that would be possible nowadays in view of the current
condition of that track.
See

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/es/electric/emu/440/Cercanias/RENFE440_Lt.jpg

Post by P.L.Guillemin
The track is no longer maintained and bushes have grown thereupon...

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/es/electric/emu/440/Cercanias/RENFE440_Lt.jpg
???
twice the same link and I don't see what you say...

Sorry, mea culpa. The link I gave shows the current track layout in
Latour de Carol, especially the positioning of the broad-gauge track.


The 2nd link I intended to give was
Loading Image....

You can easily notice the poor condition of the UIC-gauge track Latour
de Carol-Puigcerda on the right...


Best regards.

Phil

[U***@web.de]

Post by Marc Van Dyck

Post by Erwan David

Post by Lennart Petersen
The gauges crosses each other at the mid of the station and platform.
Broad stops at the north (!!) part of the platform and standard at the south
part (!).

Are you sure that standard gauge track to Puigcerda is not still here,
even if unused ?

Last time I was there, there were two parralel tracks,
one normal gauge, one braod, only the broad one was
used in regular service, but that year SNCF ran an
weekly excursion train for tourists on this line
from Ax-Les Thermes to Puigcerda, so I had the chance
to ride the normal gauge track. SNCF people at Latour
de Carol commented that it was indeed very unusual.
That must have happened about 10 years ago.

I read the standard gauge entry into Puigcerdà has
been blocked meanwhile.

Well, the broad RENFE gauge had been converted from
1,5 to 3 kV while SNCF standard gauge requires 1,5 kV
in that region.

Regards, ULF

[P.L.Guillemin]

Post by Lennart Petersen
However the station layout is somewhat mysterious. We can leave the metre
gauge having a separate platform but broad and standard shares the same
platform.
The gauges crosses each other at the mid of the station and platform.
Broad stops at the north (!!) part of the platform and standard at the south
part (!).

Not any more. The track layout was extensively reviewed in 1991-92.
Before that, you had the following pattern:

Track 3, alongside platform 2: wholly+1.5kV
Track 2, alongside platform 2: 2/3 broad gauge+3kV, 1/3 UIC+1.5kV
Track 1, alongside platform 1: 1/3 broad gauge+3kV, 2/3 UIC+1.5kV

Actually, tracks 1 and 2 crossed each other to switch between
platforms 1 and2.

All that implied complex shunting, and extra care as 3kV and 1.5kV
wires crossed each other, unlike in Portbou and Iraun where 1.5kV
applies to both track-gauges.

So in 1992, the track layout was completely re-arranged:

Track 3 unchanged.

Track 2 split between RENFE and SNCF (2/3-1/3), with 2 buffers.

1 broad-gauge siding added between Track 2 RENFE and Track 1 SNCF, to
enable loco changeovers if RENFE diagrams loco-hauled sets until
Latour de Carol.

Track 1 wholly SNCF.


Best regards.

Phil

[P.L.Guillemin]

Post by tobias b koehler

Post by P.L.Guillemin
There were also plans for Talgo services between Toulouse and
Barcelona via Puigcerda, but nothing has happened so far...

That would require the installation of gauge changing equipment
at La Tour de Carol (is it Latour or La Tour?) - I don't think
that the possibility exists there; it's been some time since I
was there, but I think the three gauges were completely
independent from each other.

They are indeed (see my reply to Lennart).

Now that the UIC-gauge track is no longer in use between latour de
Carol and Puigcerda, there have been plans to re-gauge it and fit it
with a live rail so that the Train Jaune would extend until
Puigcerda...


Between both border stations, there is plenty of room to build a
gauge-changer, as the line runs through a small plain.

But there are also plans to re-gauge Latour-Vic to UIC, with
dual-gauge tracking on Vic-Barcelona...


Best regards.

Phil

[P.L.Guillemin]

Post by tobias b koehler

Post by David Eerdmans
What kind of equipment can I expect on train 5706 Latour de Carol -
Barcelona? Hafas thinks this is an IR, what is the Spanish train category
for this train?

http://horarios.renfe.es/hir/hjhir030.jsp?U=VR&ID=s&O=77310&D=BARCE
says it's a Delta, 2nd class only, possibility of reservation.

I m not sure whether you can reserve from abroad on this class on train, though...


Best regards.

Phil

[Phil Richards]

On 19 Oct 2003 10:41:42 -0700 P.L.Guillemin <***@hotmail.com>
said...

Post by P.L.Guillemin

Post by tobias b koehler
says it's a Delta, 2nd class only, possibility of reservation.

I m not sure whether you can reserve from abroad on this class on train, though...

Thomas Cooks European Timetable makes no mention of reservations on
the Latour de Carol to Barcelona route. Some Delta services are
reservable IIRC, I believe they are opened up for booking only 15 days
beforehand.