Discussion:
[OeBB] New timetable from Dec. 12
(too old to reply)
Helmut Uttenthaler
2004-06-01 21:23:42 UTC
Permalink
Some timetable news regarding international connections to/from
Austria from Dec. 12:



SUMMERAU:

- as the direct couchette car Praha - Linz - Zürich (introduced in
Dec. 2002) has attracted enough passengers, it's planned to offer
also a sleeping-car Zürich - Praha.



BRECLAV:

- New timetable Wien - Praha with CD-tilting trains, replacing
existing EC-trains:

Wien ab 6:34 11:34 13:34 17:34 19:34
Prag an 10:42 15:39 17:42 21:42 23:42
Dresden an 17:52
Berlin Zoo an 20:21

Berlin Zoo ab 9:37
Dresden ab 12:05
Prag ab 6:18 8:18 12:18 14:19 18:18
Wien an 10:28 12:28 16:28 18:28 22:28


- Wien - Warszawa:

Day trains:

Wien 7:08 - Wwa Wschodnia 14:43
Wien 14:34 - Wwa Wschodnia 22:19

Wwa Wschodnia 5:48 - Wien 13:28
Wwa Wschodnia 13:48 - Wien 21:28

Overnight train D 203 will arrive in Wien earlier (at 6:03) to
offer a connection to EC 31.



MARCHEGG/KITTSEE:

- Wien - Kosice

The three IC trains Wien - Bratislava (- Kosice) will
arrive/depart at Wien Westbahnhof (instead of Wien Südbahnhof) to
improve connections from/to places west of Wien. An additional
stop will be Wien Meidling, for connections from/to Graz/Villach.
The faster (two-hourly) EUregio-trains Wien - Marchegg -
Bratislava will still serve Wien Südbahnhof.



HEGYESHALOM:

New direct daytime connection Wien - Arad:

Wien 6:22 - Arad 14:46
Arad 16:50 - Wien 23:15

Wien - Budapest as through cars (1st and 2nd class + dining car)
in EN "Kalman
Imre", Budapest - Arad as IC "Traianus".


New daily sleeping car Wien - Sofia as a through car in trains
347/341/491 and 490/340/346.
Wien 20:03 - Sofia ~18:40
Sofia ~12:20 - Wien 9:04



SOPRON:

New daily IC train Wien - Pecs:

IC 981: Wien 6:20 - Sopron 7:26 - Szombathely 8:37 - Pecs 12:54
IC 982: Pecs 15:02 - Szombathely 19:20 - Sopron 20:27 - Wien 21:33

1st and 2nd class + dining car
On saturdays and sundays with through cars Wien - Keszthely



SPIELFELD:

neue connection Graz - Maribor - Venezia ()


Graz ab 7:21 IC 153
Maribor an 8:26

Maribor ab 8:32 EC 50
Ljubljana an 10:20
Venezia SL an 14:25


Venezia SL ab 15:44 EC 51
Ljubljana ab 19:45
Maribor an 21:33

Maribor ab 21:40 IC 152
Graz an 22:46


EC 50/51 (SZ tilting train) currently running Ljubljana - Venezia
will therefore be extended to/from Maribor. A new connecting train
Graz - Maribor will be introduced, therefore the IC Graz - Koper
will be cancelled between Graz and Maribor.



TARVISIO:


The service will be improved. Instead of 1 there will be 2 EC
trains Wien - Venezia. Between Wien and Villach these will run in
addition to the IC traffic with fewer stops.


Two new EC-trains Wien - Venezia (reservation necessary due to
limited capacity - only 6 cars per train: 4B, 1WR, 1A):

EC 31 EC 33
Wien Süd ab 06:30 15:30
Villach ab 10:39 19:39
Venezia SL an 13:27 22:34

EC 32 EC 30
Venezia SL ab 06:42 14:51
Villach an 09:39 17:42
Wien Süd an 13:52 21:47

Intermediate stops: Bruck/Mur, Klagenfurt Hbf, Villach Hbf,
Tarvisio BV, Udine, Pordenone, Venezia Mestre

I'nm not sure about Wien Meidling and Wiener Neustadt.

Modernized ÖBB cars will be used for EC 30/31, whereas Trenitalia
cars will be used for EC 32/33.



EN 236/237 will be cancelled between Wien and Villach and will be
replaced by through cars Wien Westbf - Venezia via Linz -
Salzburg - Villach (attached to the "Lisinski" between Salzburg
and Villach).


Wien West 20:35 - Salzburg 23:52-1:40 - Villach Hbf 4:00-4:20 -
Venezia SL 8:46
Venezia SL 20:44 - Villach 1:10-1:45 - Salzburg 4:10-6:00 - Wien
West 8:48



D 1236/1237 (Wien - Firenze, once weekly in summer) will be
extended to Roma Termini (with motorail cars Wien - Firenze and
Wien - Roma):

Wien Süd 20:05 - Firenze CM 7:05-7:20 - Roma 9:44
Roma 16:08 - Firenze CM 19:55-20:18 - Wien Süd 8:38



BUCHS:

EC 168 Feldkirch 18:46 - Zürich 20:20
EC 169 Zürich 7:40 - Feldkirch 9:14

..with connection to/from Graz (OEC 668/669)

Trains 440, 441, 442, 443 and 448 (all running Sargans - Feldkirch
or v.v.) will be cancelled.



PASSAU:

Maybe a direct overnight connection Wien - Amsterdam will be
reinstated.




--
Helmut Uttenthaler,
Graz
Ulf Kutzner
2004-06-02 07:48:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Wien 6:22 - Arad 14:46
Arad 16:50 - Wien 23:15
Wien - Budapest as through cars (1st and 2nd class + dining car)
in EN "Kalman
Imre", Budapest - Arad as IC "Traianus".
No direct overnight service Munich <-> Arad?
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Two new EC-trains Wien - Venezia (reservation necessary due to
Any special reasons for limited capacity?

Regards, ULF
Helmut Uttenthaler
2004-06-02 09:32:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ulf Kutzner
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Wien 6:22 - Arad 14:46
Arad 16:50 - Wien 23:15
Wien - Budapest as through cars (1st and 2nd class + dining
car)
Post by Ulf Kutzner
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
in EN "Kalman
Imre", Budapest - Arad as IC "Traianus".
No direct overnight service Munich <-> Arad?
Don't think so.
Post by Ulf Kutzner
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Two new EC-trains Wien - Venezia (reservation necessary due to
Any special reasons for limited capacity?
Reduced travel times are not possible (or would require a 2nd
loco) with a longer (heavier) train - says ÖBB.
--
Helmut Uttenthaler,
Graz
P.L.Guillemin
2004-06-02 09:07:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
- as the direct couchette car Praha - Linz - Zürich (introduced in
Dec. 2002) has attracted enough passengers, it's planned to offer
also a sleeping-car Zürich - Praha.
Which WL type will run?

What is the kind of Bc currently used on Zurich-Praha? Will that extra WL be
compatible with platform length on Zurich-Linz?
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
New daily sleeping car Wien - Sofia as a through car in trains
347/341/491 and 490/340/346.
Wien 20:03 - Sofia ~18:40
Sofia ~12:20 - Wien 9:04
WL of BDZ or OEBB?


A new connecting train
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Graz - Maribor will be introduced,
Any idea on the rolling-stock to be used?
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
The service will be improved. Instead of 1 there will be 2 EC
trains Wien - Venezia. Between Wien and Villach these will run in
addition to the IC traffic with fewer stops.
Is the EC supplement to remain on those services?
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Trains 440, 441, 442, 443 and 448 (all running Sargans - Feldkirch
or v.v.) will be cancelled.
Any reason for that?
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Maybe a direct overnight connection Wien - Amsterdam will be
reinstated.
Would be nice. Which operator? OEBB or CNL?

In view of the above, it seems that the Timetable of December 2003 is gonna
be a good vintage, at least in Austria :-)


Best regards

Phil
Helmut Uttenthaler
2004-06-02 09:29:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
- as the direct couchette car Praha - Linz - Zürich (introduced in
Dec. 2002) has attracted enough passengers, it's planned to
offer
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
also a sleeping-car Zürich - Praha.
Which WL type will run?
I've heared that the Graz - Zürich WL will be used for that
service:
1st night: Graz - Zürich
2nd night: Zürich - Praha
3rd night: Praha - Zürich
4th night: Zürich - Praha

Currently a WLAB 70-70 (P) is used for the Graz - Zürich service:
Loading Image...
Post by P.L.Guillemin
What is the kind of Bc currently used on Zurich-Praha?
ÖBB Bcmz 59-70 with air-condition. It runs Wien - Zürich - Praha -
Zürich - Wien.
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Will that
extra WL be compatible with platform length on Zurich-Linz?
Should be possible, I've heared that there are already sometimes 1
or 2 additional Bc (CD) running Praha - Zürich.
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
New daily sleeping car Wien - Sofia as a through car in trains
347/341/491 and 490/340/346.
Wien 20:03 - Sofia ~18:40
Sofia ~12:20 - Wien 9:04
WL of BDZ or OEBB?
Don't know yet.
Post by P.L.Guillemin
A new connecting train
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Graz - Maribor will be introduced,
Any idea on the rolling-stock to be used?
Loco hauled train with SZ cars.
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
The service will be improved. Instead of 1 there will be 2 EC
trains Wien - Venezia. Between Wien and Villach these will run in
addition to the IC traffic with fewer stops.
Is the EC supplement to remain on those services?
There is no EC supplement in Austria.
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Trains 440, 441, 442, 443 and 448 (all running Sargans -
Feldkirch
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
or v.v.) will be cancelled.
Any reason for that?
...I don't know. Maybe there will be alternative local services.
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Maybe a direct overnight connection Wien - Amsterdam will be
reinstated.
Would be nice. Which operator? OEBB or CNL?
Unfortunately I don't know ny details about this plans (and how
realistic they are)
Post by P.L.Guillemin
In view of the above, it seems that the Timetable of December
2003 is
Post by P.L.Guillemin
gonna be a good vintage, at least in Austria :-)
There are not only good news, there will be also some cutbacks at
domestic services: IC trains between Salzburg and Villach, Graz
and Salzburg/Linz/Innsbruck will be slower due to additional stops
(therefore local trains will be cancelled). Some local trains will
also be replaced by buses.
--
Helmut Uttenthaler,
Graz
P.L.Guillemin
2004-06-02 09:41:38 UTC
Permalink
http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/at/car/night/WL/P/61_81_70-70_003-5_G1.jpg

BTW, have you had the opportunity to sample those AB30 (ex-P) cars?
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Post by P.L.Guillemin
What is the kind of Bc currently used on Zurich-Praha?
ÖBB Bcmz 59-70 with air-condition. It runs Wien - Zürich - Praha -
Zürich - Wien.
Good. Doubtless worthy of the Euronight label.
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Will that
extra WL be compatible with platform length on Zurich-Linz?
Should be possible, I've heared that there are already sometimes 1
or 2 additional Bc (CD) running Praha - Zürich.
CD cars are rather substandard on a EN service, aren't they?

Does the Zurich-Praha through Bc run alone North of Summerau or along with
cars used for cabotage?
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Post by P.L.Guillemin
A new connecting train
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Graz - Maribor will be introduced,
Any idea on the rolling-stock to be used?
Loco hauled train with SZ cars.
Which will imply a loco change at Spielfeld-Strass, won't it? In this case,
a Zeleni Vlak may have been more appropriate...
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
The service will be improved. Instead of 1 there will be 2 EC
trains Wien - Venezia. Between Wien and Villach these will run
in
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
addition to the IC traffic with fewer stops.
Is the EC supplement to remain on those services?
There is no EC supplement in Austria.
I ve heard that there is or was one for journeys using the rebuilt
Pontebanna...
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Maybe a direct overnight connection Wien - Amsterdam will be
reinstated.
Would be nice. Which operator? OEBB or CNL?
Unfortunately I don't know ny details about this plans (and how
realistic they are)
AFAIK, journey times would be quite ok, running at 160.


Best regards

Phil
Helmut Uttenthaler
2004-06-02 17:20:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Currently a WLAB 70-70 (P) is used for the Graz - Zürich
service:
http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/at/car/night/WL/P/61_81_70-70_003-5_G1.jpg
Post by P.L.Guillemin
BTW, have you had the opportunity to sample those AB30 (ex-P)
cars?


No. Due to financial reasons (I'm student) I only use sleeping
cars in Eastern Europe, where the supplements are cheap...
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Does the Zurich-Praha through Bc run alone North of Summerau or
along
Post by P.L.Guillemin
with cars used for cabotage?#
There are also seating cars Linz - Summerau - Praha.
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
A new connecting train
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Graz - Maribor will be introduced,
Any idea on the rolling-stock to be used?
Loco hauled train with SZ cars.
Which will imply a loco change at Spielfeld-Strass, won't it?
Yes.
Post by P.L.Guillemin
In this
case, a Zeleni Vlak may have been more appropriate...
Yes, but I think they are now only used for local trains. However,
I've hearde of plans to introduce an newe Ljubljana - Beograd EC
train using the "Zeleni vlak". Anyone knowing details about those
plans?
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
There is no EC supplement in Austria.
I ve heard that there is or was one for journeys using the
rebuilt
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Pontebanna...
Yes, but the supplement (EUR 12 one way) isn't only payable on EC
trains. It's a payable by everyone using TCV tickets when crossing
the Austrian/Italian border at Tarvisio.
--
Helmut Uttenthaler,
Graz
P.L.Guillemin
2004-06-02 20:27:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Post by P.L.Guillemin
BTW, have you had the opportunity to sample those AB30 (ex-P)
cars?
No. Due to financial reasons (I'm student) I only use sleeping
cars in Eastern Europe, where the supplements are cheap...
What about Sparnight?
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Does the Zurich-Praha through Bc run alone North of Summerau or
along
Post by P.L.Guillemin
with cars used for cabotage?#
There are also seating cars Linz - Summerau - Praha.
of CD?
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Post by P.L.Guillemin
In this
case, a Zeleni Vlak may have been more appropriate...
Yes, but I think they are now only used for local trains.
Maribor-Graz can be regarded as a local IC. The distance is very comparable
to that from Wien to Bratislava...


However,
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
I've hearde of plans to introduce an newe Ljubljana - Beograd EC
train using the "Zeleni vlak".
I am the one who first reported this info here :-)


Anyone knowing details about those
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
plans?
All I know was that this EC service was to begin in June, but I have no more
news about it. Maybe Toma and Ales are more knowledgeable.
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
There is no EC supplement in Austria.
I ve heard that there is or was one for journeys using the
rebuilt
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Pontebanna...
Yes, but the supplement (EUR 12 one way) isn't only payable on EC
trains. It's a payable by everyone using TCV tickets when crossing
the Austrian/Italian border at Tarvisio.
Is that supplement levied to repay the Pontebanna reconstruction?


Best regards

Phil
tobias b köhler
2004-06-03 07:34:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Post by P.L.Guillemin
In this
case, a Zeleni Vlak may have been more appropriate...
Yes, but I think they are now only used for local trains. However,
I've hearde of plans to introduce an newe Ljubljana - Beograd EC
train using the "Zeleni vlak". Anyone knowing details about those
plans?
No, but the green train is still running as Intercity Ljubljana - Murska
Sobota, not only as local train. Some units are retired though,
apparently disassembled for spare parts for the remaining units.

toby
iMark
2004-06-02 18:57:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Maybe a direct overnight connection Wien - Amsterdam will be
reinstated.
Would be nice. Which operator? OEBB or CNL?
Unfortunately I don't know ny details about this plans (and how
realistic they are)
OEBB has requested paths in the Netherlands at the FTE C to run a
through service Wien - Amsterdam vv. NS Reizigers will be the carrier in
NL, supplying a loco, driver and guards. But first there will have to be
an agreement about the availabitly of paths in Netherlands.

The arrival from Wien will not be a problem, but the departure from
Amsterdam will be, considering the requested departure time by OEBB for
a convenient arrival in Wien. Departure from Amsterdam would have to be
around 16.00 hours, not a very good departure time for a night train.

When I hear more, I will keep you posted.

iMark
Helmut Uttenthaler
2004-06-02 19:39:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by iMark
OEBB has requested paths in the Netherlands at the FTE C to run a
through service Wien - Amsterdam vv. NS Reizigers will be the
carrier
Post by iMark
in NL, supplying a loco, driver and guards. But first there will
have
Post by iMark
to be an agreement about the availabitly of paths in
Netherlands.
Post by iMark
The arrival from Wien will not be a problem, but the departure
from
Post by iMark
Amsterdam will be, considering the requested departure time by
OEBB
Post by iMark
for a convenient arrival in Wien. Departure from Amsterdam would
have
Post by iMark
to be around 16.00 hours, not a very good departure time for a
night
Post by iMark
train.
16:00 seems much to early.

A loco hauled EC train needs slightly more than 9,5 hours to get
from Köln to Wien, Amsterdam - Köln should be possible within 3
hrs.
Totally about 12,5 - 13 hours, that would mean an arrival in Wien
between 4:30 and 5:00 - not quite convenient.
Maybe there are no free paths allowing such a travel time, but it
should be possible to offer a travel time of about 14 hours.
18:30 - 8:30 would be OK.
--
Helmut Uttenthaler,
Graz
Helmut Uttenthaler
2004-06-03 14:52:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
- as the direct couchette car Praha - Linz - Zürich
(introduced in
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Dec. 2002) has attracted enough passengers, it's planned to
offer
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
also a sleeping-car Zürich - Praha.
Which WL type will run?
I've heared that the Graz - Zürich WL will be used for that
1st night: Graz - Zürich
2nd night: Zürich - Praha
3rd night: Praha - Zürich
4th night: Zürich - Praha
Currently a WLAB 70-70 (P) is used for the Graz - Zürich
service:
http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/at/car/night/WL/P/61_81_70-70_003-5_G1.jpg


ÖBB and CD are still negotiating which sleeping car (CD or ÖBB)
will be used for the Zürich-Praha service. ÖBB prefers to use an
ÖBB car, because a CD car would be too expensive (high rental fee
due to the long section on ÖBB tracks).
Hopefully they will come to an agreement.
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
New daily sleeping car Wien - Sofia as a through car in trains
347/341/491 and 490/340/346.
Wien 20:03 - Sofia ~18:40
Sofia ~12:20 - Wien 9:04
WL of BDZ or OEBB?
Don't know yet.
I've asked today: BDZ
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Unfortunately I don't know ny details about this plans (and how
realistic they are)
The Amsterdam plans are actually not very realistic.

Problems:
- high operating costs in the Netherlands (charges for track-usage
and traction)
- limited sale possibilities in the Netherlands due to closure of
international ticket counters
- unconvenient arrival/departure time at Amsterdam



BTW: The Wien - Kiev (5 times weekly)/Lvov (2 times weekly)
through car will run via Marchegg in both direction.
Currently the westbound car is attached to a EUregio-train via
Marchegg, whereas the esatbound train is conveyed by an IC train
via Kittsee.

As the IC trains will be diverted to Wien Westbf, the eastbound UZ
car will be also attached to an EUregio-train via Marchegg.
--
Helmut Uttenthaler,
Graz
P.L.Guillemin
2004-06-03 18:46:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
ÖBB and CD are still negotiating which sleeping car (CD or ÖBB)
will be used for the Zürich-Praha service. ÖBB prefers to use an
ÖBB car, because a CD car would be too expensive (high rental fee
due to the long section on ÖBB tracks).
Hopefully they will come to an agreement.
WLAB33, old as they are, would probably be more comfortable than OSZhD-type
cars of CD, wouldn'they?

Maybe OEBB could diagramm WLMUn...
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Unfortunately I don't know ny details about this plans (and how
realistic they are)
The Amsterdam plans are actually not very realistic.
- high operating costs in the Netherlands (charges for track-usage
and traction)
Couldn't CNL use DB locos and drivers until Amsterdam?

Concerning user charges, these are lower than those payable in Germany, as
they mount up to:

EUR 0.30 train.km
+ EUR 1 for each stop in Arnhem, Utrecht centraal and Amsterdam Centraal...
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
- limited sale possibilities in the Netherlands due to closure of
international ticket counters
That is indeed a big problem.
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
- unconvenient arrival/departure time at Amsterdam
I agree with you that would-be journey times are by far too unattractive.
Sounds incredible to have more than 14hrs...

Defunct Donauwalzer only took some 14.30 (Eastbound) and 14.26 (Westbound).


Best regards

Phil
tobias b köhler
2004-06-03 21:22:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by P.L.Guillemin
WLAB33, old as they are, would probably be more comfortable than OSZhD-type
cars of CD, wouldn'they?
The CD has modern sleeping-cars in service (rebuilt from UIC-Z2
compartment cars). These are currently used on a number of Czech-German
relations (to München and Stuttgart for example).

Loading Image...
P.L.Guillemin
2004-06-03 21:48:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by tobias b köhler
Post by P.L.Guillemin
WLAB33, old as they are, would probably be more comfortable than OSZhD-type
cars of CD, wouldn'they?
The CD has modern sleeping-cars in service (rebuilt from UIC-Z2
compartment cars). These are currently used on a number of Czech-German
relations (to München and Stuttgart for example).
http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/cz/car/night/61_54_70-71_009-1_Phn1.jpg
Fair enough, but how many of them does CD actaully have, compared to older
WL?
tobias b köhler
2004-06-04 22:35:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Post by tobias b köhler
The CD has modern sleeping-cars in service (rebuilt from UIC-Z2
compartment cars). These are currently used on a number of Czech-German
relations (to München and Stuttgart for example).
Fair enough, but how many of them does CD actaully have, compared to older
WL?
Apparently they have 9 of them. I am not sure whether any more such
rebuildings are planned. When they were new, the CD said that all older
sleeping cars would be replaced by rebuilt ones ....
Ulf Kutzner
2004-06-04 06:44:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
The Amsterdam plans are actually not very realistic.
- high operating costs in the Netherlands (charges for track-usage
and traction)
Couldn't CNL use DB locos and drivers until Amsterdam?
Maybe railion diesel but I have no idea whther they would be allowed on
that route.

DB doesn't operate electric locos into 1,5 kV territory.

Regards, ULF
tobias b köhler
2004-06-04 22:29:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ulf Kutzner
DB doesn't operate electric locos into 1,5 kV territory.
Are any of the class 189 approved for NS tracks?
iMark
2004-06-13 13:34:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by tobias b köhler
Post by Ulf Kutzner
DB doesn't operate electric locos into 1,5 kV territory.
Are any of the class 189 approved for NS tracks?
The latest I have heard is that Railion is still testing them before
they are approved. Approval is expected later in the year.

iMark
David Eerdmans
2004-06-03 20:19:11 UTC
Permalink
Helmut Uttenthaler <***@gmx.at> wrote in article
<***@uni-berlin.de>...

[OeBB plans night train Wien - Amsterdam]
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
The Amsterdam plans are actually not very realistic.
[snip]
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
- limited sale possibilities in the Netherlands due to closure of
international ticket counters
A promotion campaign + internet sales might work...

Regards,
David
G!t@?@
2004-06-02 13:20:54 UTC
Permalink
Some news from Poland :

IC "Wawel" Kraków - Hamburg Altona - Kraków - will run as EC - and
will be probably rerouted via Poznan and Frankfurt(O)

There will be new Ex train connecting Warsaw with Swinoujscie. It will
depart about 8 am from Swinoujscie and arrive back about 9 pm.

It's also planned to bring back direct Ex connection between Katowice
and Gdansk(Gdynia). (only runs in season - in this timetable)

There are also messages that EC 130/131 will run as Wien - Warsaw
train ( not as Budapest - Warsaw with Wien portion ). So Warsaw will
lose direct "day" connection with Budapest.


Wojciech Gawlinski
Zabrze ) Poland
P.L.Guillemin
2004-06-02 13:33:15 UTC
Permalink
No new developments between Poland and countries located further East?

Do you have an idea about the completion date for the Upgrade of
Kunowice-Terespol?


Best regards

Phil
G!t@?@
2004-06-02 22:16:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by P.L.Guillemin
No new developments between Poland and countries located further East?
Surely it will be - but I heard only about Kaliningrad - Gdynia
train - DB want it to run as Berlin - Kaliningrad ( instead of portion
Berlin - Poznan - Tczew - Kaliningrad). If I have any news - I'll
write.
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Do you have an idea about the completion date for the Upgrade of
Kunowice-Terespol?
It should be finished 'till the end of 2006. They do Lowicz- Kutno at
the moment. But the plan to make additional "consolidating" works
untill end o 2008.

Best regards

Wojtek

PS. Hope to read more news about 2005 timetable in Europe here :)
P.L.Guillemin
2004-06-03 08:30:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by G!t@?@
Post by P.L.Guillemin
No new developments between Poland and countries located further East?
Surely it will be - but I heard only about Kaliningrad - Gdynia
train - DB want it to run as Berlin - Kaliningrad ( instead of portion
Berlin - Poznan - Tczew - Kaliningrad). If I have any news - I'll
write.
There used to be an overnighter Berlin-Kaliningrad via Sczeczcin in the
mid-90s.
Post by G!t@?@
Post by P.L.Guillemin
Do you have an idea about the completion date for the Upgrade of
Kunowice-Terespol?
It should be finished 'till the end of 2006. They do Lowicz- Kutno at
the moment. But the plan to make additional "consolidating" works
untill end o 2008.
Goodness, how come the agenda has slipped so much? When works started in
1992, completion was expected in 1998....


Best regards

Phil
Tadej Brezina
2004-06-03 22:03:45 UTC
Permalink
Hi!

Because we are talking about Poland right now, I've got two related question:
1.) What does the abbreviation CMK for the Diretissima Katowice-Warszawa mean?
2.) Which way goes the Praha/Vienna/Bratislava - Moskva train 22 "Vltava" between Katowice and the
Belorussian border? Actually I wasnt' able to check the route on the Thomas Cook Railroad Map of Europe.

Thanks
Tadej
--
Tadej Brezina (***@gmx.at)

... und aufgebrezelten Maedels beim Zappeln zugucken.
Thomas Engelmeier in dtr
Helmut Uttenthaler
2004-06-03 22:09:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tadej Brezina
Hi!
Because we are talking about Poland right now, I've got two
related
Post by Tadej Brezina
1.) What does the abbreviation CMK for the Diretissima
Katowice-Warszawa mean?
"Centralna Magistrala Kolejowa"
Post by Tadej Brezina
2.) Which way goes the Praha/Vienna/Bratislava - Moskva train 22
"Vltava" between Katowice and the Belorussian border?
See
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=pilawa+vltava&hl=de&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=bok1j5%241f98br%241%40ID-149028.news.uni-berlin.de&rnum=2
--
Helmut Uttenthaler,
Graz
G!t@?@
2004-06-04 06:46:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tadej Brezina
Post by Tadej Brezina
Hi!
Because we are talking about Poland right now, I've got two
related
Post by Tadej Brezina
1.) What does the abbreviation CMK for the Diretissima
Katowice-Warszawa mean?
"Centralna Magistrala Kolejowa" - but to be accurate - it's Zawiercie
- Grodzisk Mazowiecki line. But from Grodzisk Mazwoiecki to Waraszawa
Zachodania there are two pairs of track :). From Zawiercie to Katowice
- there is only one pair of track. ( and tains runs between Katowice
and Zawiercie with average speed about 60 km/h.
Post by Tadej Brezina
Post by Tadej Brezina
2.) Which way goes the Praha/Vienna/Bratislava - Moskva train 22
"Vltava" between Katowice and the Belorussian border?
See
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=pilawa+vltava&hl=de&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=bok1j5%241f98br%241%40ID-149028.news.uni-berlin.de&rnum=2
It runs at it's written by Zebrzydowice -Katowice -Zawiercie - than
by CMK untill Mszczonow - where it turns on Skierniewice - Pilawa
line - which is currently only freight line (with exception for
Veltava) . Than it goes by Pilawa to Lukow nad then to Terespol. It's
running back the same way - but in first year of running it wasn't
like that. This train took one way by Zawiercie - Idzikowice - Radom
--Deblin - Lukow. :)


Wojtek
Zabrze (Poland)
KrzysiekL
2004-06-04 14:43:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by G!t@?@
From Zawiercie to Katowice
- there is only one pair of track. ( and tains runs between Katowice
and Zawiercie with average speed about 60 km/h.
IMHO:
Katowice - Dabrowa Gornicza about 60 km/h
Dabrowa Gornicza - Zawiercie about 100-120km/h

Krzysiek
Kai Ludwig
2004-06-10 20:21:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by G!t@?@
IC "Wawel" Kraków - Hamburg Altona - Kraków - will run as EC - and
will be probably rerouted via Poznan and Frankfurt(O)
If so, what about 448/449? And what about the (alleged) plans to run
these trains til Cottbus with PKP class SU46?

And what about Dresden -- Wroclaw? Allegedly 454/455 will be
terminated while the fate of 456/457 is said to be under
consideration at present.

KL
Helmut Uttenthaler
2004-06-02 20:04:03 UTC
Permalink
There are plans to replace IC 244/245 (Budapest - Hodos -
Ljubljana - Tríeste daytime train) by a new EC train Venezia -
Ljubljana - Zagreb - Budapest. The train will - like EC 50/51 -
use the west-to-east Trieste avoiding curve at the Bivio d’
Aurisina triangle. FS may rename Villa Opicina station as Trieste
Opicina.

http://www.rinbad.demon.co.uk/2004q2.htm (message #3777)
--
Helmut Uttenthaler,
Graz
Tadej Brezina
2004-06-02 21:44:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
There are plans to replace IC 244/245 (Budapest - Hodos -
Ljubljana - Tríeste daytime train) by a new EC train Venezia -
Ljubljana - Zagreb - Budapest. The train will - like EC 50/51 -
use the west-to-east Trieste avoiding curve at the Bivio d’
Aurisina triangle. FS may rename Villa Opicina station as Trieste
Opicina.
Which - I think - alltogether is crap!
Everybody, including us rail and PT freaks, who ever hat the "delight"
of travelling from .si to Trieste on a train terminating in Villa
Opicina knows, that this is an incredibly shitty connection. It takes
abt. 20min. of walk from Villa Opicina to the tram stops with less than
satisfying indications, not to say that there are absolutely now signs
in both directions.
Why the f*** is a city like Trieste excluded from international rail
services?
Yes it must be the importance of winning, I guess, 20 minutes, or what?
Instead a city with at least, another guess, 100.000 passengers is
excluded.
Long live the EU expansion and integration - and the passenger branch
managers who seem to be forgetting that people is it what needs to be
transported

Tadej
Who's come back from the trans-asia rail journey and is still impressed
by the CR's [Znn] overnight trains.
Haven't seen something like this in all of Europe yet!!
--
Tadej Brezina (***@gmx.at)

... und aufgebrezelten Maedels beim Zappeln zugucken.
Thomas Engelmeier in dtr
Helmut Uttenthaler
2004-06-03 07:21:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tadej Brezina
Which - I think - alltogether is crap!
Everybody, including us rail and PT freaks, who ever hat the
"delight" of travelling from .si to Trieste on a train
terminating in
Post by Tadej Brezina
Villa Opicina knows, that this is an incredibly shitty
connection. It
Post by Tadej Brezina
takes abt. 20min. of walk from Villa Opicina to the tram stops
with
Post by Tadej Brezina
less than satisfying indications, not to say that there are
absolutely now signs in both directions.
An extension of the tram would be nice!
Post by Tadej Brezina
Why the f*** is a city like Trieste excluded from international rail
services?
Yes it must be the importance of winning, I guess, 20 minutes,
or
Post by Tadej Brezina
what?
It saves about 25 minutes of travel time plus the duration of the
stop in Trieste.
Post by Tadej Brezina
Instead a city with at least, another guess, 100.000 passengers
is excluded.
Long live the EU expansion and integration - and the passenger
branch
Post by Tadej Brezina
managers who seem to be forgetting that people is it what needs to be
transported
Tadej
Who's come back from the trans-asia rail journey and is still
impressed by the CR's [Znn] overnight trains.
Haven't seen something like this in all of Europe yet!!
Will you post a travelogue and/or upload some photos to the ERS
(http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it)?

Would be very interesting!
--
Helmut Uttenthaler,
Graz
Tadej Brezina
2004-06-03 21:59:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Post by Tadej Brezina
Who's come back from the trans-asia rail journey and is still
impressed by the CR's [Znn] overnight trains.
Haven't seen something like this in all of Europe yet!!
Will you post a travelogue and/or upload some photos to the ERS
(http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it)?
I'm planning to do it. But as I returned on tuesday after a 15hr. flight
from Hongkong, I'm still a little bit dizzy and groggy.

greetings
Tadej
--
Tadej Brezina (***@gmx.at)

... und aufgebrezelten Maedels beim Zappeln zugucken.
Thomas Engelmeier in dtr
Ulf Kutzner
2004-06-04 06:48:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tadej Brezina
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Post by Tadej Brezina
Who's come back from the trans-asia rail journey and is still
impressed by the CR's [Znn] overnight trains.
Haven't seen something like this in all of Europe yet!!
Will you post a travelogue and/or upload some photos to the ERS
(http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it)?
I'm planning to do it.
Thank you.

Regards & X-post, ULF
David Eerdmans
2004-06-07 21:25:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tadej Brezina
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Post by Tadej Brezina
Who's come back from the trans-asia rail journey and is still
impressed by the CR's [Znn] overnight trains.
Haven't seen something like this in all of Europe yet!!
Will you post a travelogue and/or upload some photos to the ERS
(http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it)?
I'm planning to do it. But as I returned on tuesday after a 15hr. flight
from Hongkong, I'm still a little bit dizzy and groggy.
I'm looking forward to your report! :-)

Regards,
David
Ric Euteneuer
2004-06-08 11:42:41 UTC
Permalink
There was a time when FS operated a bus to/from Trieste station to
connect with IC264/265 Kras, because the time and effort involved in
getting the train to Trieste main station wasn't worth it, and the bus
took 20 minutes, whereas the train took considerably longer. Any idea
why they withdrew this facility ?

I can't see them extending the small, wooden seated ancient tram to
the station. Anyone who's ever caught this tram with anything heavier
than a plastic bag will concur !
Post by Tadej Brezina
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
There are plans to replace IC 244/245 (Budapest - Hodos -
Ljubljana - Tríeste daytime train) by a new EC train Venezia -
Ljubljana - Zagreb - Budapest. The train will - like EC 50/51 -
use the west-to-east Trieste avoiding curve at the Bivio d?
Aurisina triangle. FS may rename Villa Opicina station as Trieste
Opicina.
Which - I think - alltogether is crap!
Everybody, including us rail and PT freaks, who ever hat the "delight"
of travelling from .si to Trieste on a train terminating in Villa
Opicina knows, that this is an incredibly shitty connection. It takes
abt. 20min. of walk from Villa Opicina to the tram stops with less than
satisfying indications, not to say that there are absolutely now signs
in both directions.
Why the f*** is a city like Trieste excluded from international rail
services?
Yes it must be the importance of winning, I guess, 20 minutes, or what?
Instead a city with at least, another guess, 100.000 passengers is
excluded.
Long live the EU expansion and integration - and the passenger branch
managers who seem to be forgetting that people is it what needs to be
transported
tobias b köhler
2004-06-03 07:31:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
- New timetable Wien - Praha with CD-tilting trains, replacing
Wien ab 6:34 11:34 13:34 17:34 19:34
Prag an 10:42 15:39 17:42 21:42 23:42
Dresden an 17:52
Berlin Zoo an 20:21
Will there be any possibility to depart between 6:34 and 11:34?
That looks to me like a rather big gap if there should be no trains at
all (or will we have to use a regional train to Breclav and change into
some train from Bratislava?)
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Berlin Zoo ab 9:37
Dresden ab 12:05
Prag ab 6:18 8:18 12:18 14:19 18:18
Wien an 10:28 12:28 16:28 18:28 22:28
2-4-2-4 hours .... interesting rhythm .... I would prefer to have a
train every two hours throughout the day.

greetings, toby
Helmut Uttenthaler
2004-06-03 08:08:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by tobias b köhler
Post by Helmut Uttenthaler
Berlin Zoo ab 9:37
Dresden ab 12:05
Prag ab 6:18 8:18 12:18 14:19 18:18
Wien an 10:28 12:28 16:28 18:28 22:28
2-4-2-4 hours .... interesting rhythm .... I would prefer to
have a
Post by tobias b köhler
train every two hours throughout the day.
I've heared that there will be also three daily services Praha -
Bratislava, together with the trains to Wien there will be a
service every two hours between Praha and Breclav.
I don't know details about connecting services Breclav - Wien.

EC 174/175 "Hungaria" (Budapest - Berlin) will
continhttp://f25.parsimony.net/forum63667/messages/9922.htmue to
run as a loco-hauled train but will be rerouted via Havlickuv
Brod. EC 78/79 (Budapest - Praha) "Csardas" will be cancelled.

There will also be a new EC train Praha - Berlin.

See http://f25.parsimony.net/forum63667/messages/9922.htm
--
Helmut Uttenthaler,
Graz
c***@gmail.com
2014-04-17 16:14:03 UTC
Permalink
Hallo heer mevrouw
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