Discussion:
Fyra grounded
(too old to reply)
iMark
2013-01-18 15:53:14 UTC
Permalink
After 2 days of no Fyra service from Amsterdam to Brussels because at
least 3 trains were damaged by blocks of ice, the Belgian Safety
Authority has banned Fyra from running in Belgium until further notice.
A part of a Fyra train was found along the tracks in Belgium.

It looks like Fyra is a continuous story of bad managment of bad trains.
A joint commitee of the Belgian and Dutch parliaments will organise
hearings to find out what went wrong with the project.

Meanwhile only Thalys trains will use the HSL. Regular travellers
between NL and B will have to change in Roosendaal and Essen.

It's all a disgrace and an example of the incompetence of the railway
companies involved.
Neil Williams
2013-01-18 16:18:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by iMark
Meanwhile only Thalys trains will use the HSL. Regular travellers
between NL and B will have to change in Roosendaal and Essen.
Time to give up, buy some locomotives and stock or EMUs and reinstate the
popular conventional service that people actually want?

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply.
Arthur Figgis
2013-01-18 19:36:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Williams
Post by iMark
Meanwhile only Thalys trains will use the HSL. Regular travellers
between NL and B will have to change in Roosendaal and Essen.
Time to give up, buy some locomotives and stock or EMUs and reinstate the
popular conventional service that people actually want?
Or maybe get some inter-city DMUs instead? Perhaps Denmark might have
some which are not doing much at the moment.
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK
Rob
2013-01-28 17:32:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arthur Figgis
Post by Neil Williams
Post by iMark
Meanwhile only Thalys trains will use the HSL. Regular travellers
between NL and B will have to change in Roosendaal and Essen.
Time to give up, buy some locomotives and stock or EMUs and reinstate the
popular conventional service that people actually want?
Or maybe get some inter-city DMUs instead? Perhaps Denmark might have
some which are not doing much at the moment.
I do hope that's an ironic comment ;-)
--
Rob
http://robblt.blogspot.co.uk/
"The gates of Heaven and Hell are adjacent and unmarked." - Carl Sagan
Arthur Figgis
2013-01-29 19:37:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob
Post by Arthur Figgis
Post by Neil Williams
Post by iMark
Meanwhile only Thalys trains will use the HSL. Regular travellers
between NL and B will have to change in Roosendaal and Essen.
Time to give up, buy some locomotives and stock or EMUs and reinstate the
popular conventional service that people actually want?
Or maybe get some inter-city DMUs instead? Perhaps Denmark might have
some which are not doing much at the moment.
I do hope that's an ironic comment ;-)
Borrow some trams from Gothenburg?
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK
Wolfgang Keller
2013-01-24 19:04:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by iMark
After 2 days of no Fyra service from Amsterdam to Brussels because at
least 3 trains were damaged by blocks of ice, the Belgian Safety
Authority has banned Fyra from running in Belgium until further
notice. A part of a Fyra train was found along the tracks in Belgium.
As if the problem of ice&snow with fast trains was such a new thing.

Have they been sleeping for decades?

Doesn't need to be real "high speed", my night train once got hit by
ballast at just 160 km/h or so, resulting in an emergency stop in the
middle of nowhere to check all the brake pipes for several hours.
Post by iMark
It looks like Fyra is a continuous story of bad managment of bad
trains. A joint commitee of the Belgian and Dutch parliaments will
organise hearings to find out what went wrong with the project.
Meanwhile only Thalys trains will use the HSL. Regular travellers
between NL and B will have to change in Roosendaal and Essen.
It's all a disgrace and an example of the incompetence of the railway
companies involved.
Any hierarchically structured company is more or less structurally
dysfunctional, and thus, incompetent.

Especially when you combine hierarchies (vertical dysfunctionality)
with horizontal dysfunctionalities as they're common with the railway
industry (here, for example: purchasing managers don't care about actual
operation-ability of rolling stock, since their "responsibility" ends
with award of contract) and with such psychosocio-pathologies as
"management by objective".

Sincerely,

Wolfgang.
Marc Van Dyck
2013-05-31 20:43:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by iMark
After 2 days of no Fyra service from Amsterdam to Brussels because at
least 3 trains were damaged by blocks of ice, the Belgian Safety
Authority has banned Fyra from running in Belgium until further notice.
A part of a Fyra train was found along the tracks in Belgium.
It looks like Fyra is a continuous story of bad managment of bad trains.
A joint commitee of the Belgian and Dutch parliaments will organise
hearings to find out what went wrong with the project.
Meanwhile only Thalys trains will use the HSL. Regular travellers
between NL and B will have to change in Roosendaal and Essen.
It's all a disgrace and an example of the incompetence of the railway
companies involved.
SNCB breaks the contract with AnsaldoBreda :

http://media.rtl.nl/media/financien/rtlz/2013/NMBS-fyra.pdf

It is a press release issue by SNCB to explain their decision to
break the contract. There are quite impressive pictures of defects
in there, just have a look. Sorry the text is in dutch, there are
just a few paragraphs translated in english. But you'll get the idea...

This time it is definitely over.

Curious to see how NS will follow on this.
--
Marc Van Dyck
Wolfgang Keller
2013-06-01 18:18:50 UTC
Permalink
"Break" would not be the adequate term here imho. It's rather
AnsaldoBreda who have systematically failed to fulfil the contract and
SNCB thus has the right to cancel it.

Sincerely,

Wolfgang
iMark
2013-06-03 09:08:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marc Van Dyck
Post by iMark
After 2 days of no Fyra service from Amsterdam to Brussels because at
least 3 trains were damaged by blocks of ice, the Belgian Safety
Authority has banned Fyra from running in Belgium until further notice.
A part of a Fyra train was found along the tracks in Belgium.
It looks like Fyra is a continuous story of bad managment of bad trains.
A joint commitee of the Belgian and Dutch parliaments will organise
hearings to find out what went wrong with the project.
Meanwhile only Thalys trains will use the HSL. Regular travellers
between NL and B will have to change in Roosendaal and Essen.
It's all a disgrace and an example of the incompetence of the railway
companies involved.
http://media.rtl.nl/media/financien/rtlz/2013/NMBS-fyra.pdf
It is a press release issue by SNCB to explain their decision to
break the contract. There are quite impressive pictures of defects
in there, just have a look. Sorry the text is in dutch, there are
just a few paragraphs translated in english. But you'll get the idea...
This time it is definitely over.
Curious to see how NS will follow on this.
More importantly the Dutch Transport Ministry. They are up to their neck
in this fiasco. Will they have the guts to cancel the NS franchise for
running trains on the HSL Zuid? And are there any alternatives?

It's completely shambolic. The line has been fully operational since
2009 and all we have is a Thalys service and 160 km/h train to Rotterdam
and Breda and in Belgium an hourly service from Noorderkempen to
Antwerp.
This major underusage of very expensive infrastructure mainly to blame
on the Dutch government that didn't want the HSL Zuid to be integrated
in the regular Dutch network.
Graeme Wall
2013-06-03 09:38:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by iMark
Post by Marc Van Dyck
Post by iMark
After 2 days of no Fyra service from Amsterdam to Brussels because at
least 3 trains were damaged by blocks of ice, the Belgian Safety
Authority has banned Fyra from running in Belgium until further notice.
A part of a Fyra train was found along the tracks in Belgium.
It looks like Fyra is a continuous story of bad managment of bad trains.
A joint commitee of the Belgian and Dutch parliaments will organise
hearings to find out what went wrong with the project.
Meanwhile only Thalys trains will use the HSL. Regular travellers
between NL and B will have to change in Roosendaal and Essen.
It's all a disgrace and an example of the incompetence of the railway
companies involved.
http://media.rtl.nl/media/financien/rtlz/2013/NMBS-fyra.pdf
It is a press release issue by SNCB to explain their decision to
break the contract. There are quite impressive pictures of defects
in there, just have a look. Sorry the text is in dutch, there are
just a few paragraphs translated in english. But you'll get the idea...
This time it is definitely over.
Curious to see how NS will follow on this.
More importantly the Dutch Transport Ministry. They are up to their neck
in this fiasco. Will they have the guts to cancel the NS franchise for
running trains on the HSL Zuid? And are there any alternatives?
It's completely shambolic. The line has been fully operational since
2009 and all we have is a Thalys service and 160 km/h train to Rotterdam
and Breda and in Belgium an hourly service from Noorderkempen to
Antwerp.
This major underusage of very expensive infrastructure mainly to blame
on the Dutch government that didn't want the HSL Zuid to be integrated
in the regular Dutch network.
<mode="stir">

Can't they retrieve the various E* sets that are no longer used for the
3 capitals service and cobble up a temporary high speed service between
Lille and Amsterdam? Even better extend the London-Brussels service to
Amsterdam.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>
Paul Corfield
2013-06-03 10:36:48 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 03 Jun 2013 10:38:58 +0100, Graeme Wall
<***@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

[using dutch hs line]
Post by Graeme Wall
<mode="stir">
Can't they retrieve the various E* sets that are no longer used for the
3 capitals service and cobble up a temporary high speed service between
Lille and Amsterdam? Even better extend the London-Brussels service to
Amsterdam.
<mode= stir with big spoon>

And then have the UK government and UKBA insist that every train from
Amsterdam and Brussels stops at Lille for 90 mins so everyone can be
pushed through UK immigration and customs?
--
Paul C
Marc Van Dyck
2013-06-04 20:25:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by iMark
Post by Marc Van Dyck
Post by iMark
After 2 days of no Fyra service from Amsterdam to Brussels because at
least 3 trains were damaged by blocks of ice, the Belgian Safety
Authority has banned Fyra from running in Belgium until further notice.
A part of a Fyra train was found along the tracks in Belgium.
It looks like Fyra is a continuous story of bad managment of bad trains.
A joint commitee of the Belgian and Dutch parliaments will organise
hearings to find out what went wrong with the project.
Meanwhile only Thalys trains will use the HSL. Regular travellers
between NL and B will have to change in Roosendaal and Essen.
It's all a disgrace and an example of the incompetence of the railway
companies involved.
http://media.rtl.nl/media/financien/rtlz/2013/NMBS-fyra.pdf
It is a press release issue by SNCB to explain their decision to
break the contract. There are quite impressive pictures of defects
in there, just have a look. Sorry the text is in dutch, there are
just a few paragraphs translated in english. But you'll get the idea...
This time it is definitely over.
Curious to see how NS will follow on this.
More importantly the Dutch Transport Ministry. They are up to their neck
in this fiasco. Will they have the guts to cancel the NS franchise for
running trains on the HSL Zuid? And are there any alternatives?
It's completely shambolic. The line has been fully operational since
2009 and all we have is a Thalys service and 160 km/h train to Rotterdam
and Breda and in Belgium an hourly service from Noorderkempen to
Antwerp.
This major underusage of very expensive infrastructure mainly to blame
on the Dutch government that didn't want the HSL Zuid to be integrated
in the regular Dutch network.
<mode="stir">
Can't they retrieve the various E* sets that are no longer used for the 3
capitals service and cobble up a temporary high speed service between Lille
and Amsterdam? Even better extend the London-Brussels service to Amsterdam.
Well, if I remember well, in February, Fyra ran a service every two
hours with 5 sets only. At least on paper, it worked. How many NOL sets
are still there collecting rust ? It might just be a bit difficult to
fit ETCS II and the 1.5 kV...
--
Marc Van Dyck
Recliner
2013-06-04 20:53:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marc Van Dyck
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by iMark
Post by Marc Van Dyck
Post by iMark
After 2 days of no Fyra service from Amsterdam to Brussels because at
least 3 trains were damaged by blocks of ice, the Belgian Safety
Authority has banned Fyra from running in Belgium until further notice.
A part of a Fyra train was found along the tracks in Belgium.
It looks like Fyra is a continuous story of bad managment of bad trains.
A joint commitee of the Belgian and Dutch parliaments will organise
hearings to find out what went wrong with the project.
Meanwhile only Thalys trains will use the HSL. Regular travellers
between NL and B will have to change in Roosendaal and Essen.
It's all a disgrace and an example of the incompetence of the railway
companies involved.
http://media.rtl.nl/media/financien/rtlz/2013/NMBS-fyra.pdf
It is a press release issue by SNCB to explain their decision to
break the contract. There are quite impressive pictures of defects
in there, just have a look. Sorry the text is in dutch, there are
just a few paragraphs translated in english. But you'll get the idea...
This time it is definitely over.
Curious to see how NS will follow on this.
More importantly the Dutch Transport Ministry. They are up to their neck
in this fiasco. Will they have the guts to cancel the NS franchise for
running trains on the HSL Zuid? And are there any alternatives?
It's completely shambolic. The line has been fully operational since
2009 and all we have is a Thalys service and 160 km/h train to Rotterdam
and Breda and in Belgium an hourly service from Noorderkempen to
Antwerp.
This major underusage of very expensive infrastructure mainly to blame
on the Dutch government that didn't want the HSL Zuid to be integrated
in the regular Dutch network.
<mode="stir">
Can't they retrieve the various E* sets that are no longer used for the
3 > capitals service and cobble up a temporary high speed service
between Lille > and Amsterdam? Even better extend the London-Brussels
service to Amsterdam.
Well, if I remember well, in February, Fyra ran a service every two
hours with 5 sets only. At least on paper, it worked. How many NOL sets
are still there collecting rust ? It might just be a bit difficult to
fit ETCS II and the 1.5 kV...
There are no full NoL sets collecting rust. SNCF operates 6.5 of the seven
sets, with Eurostar hanging on to the remaining half set, presumably for
spares. And they were fitted with 1500V DC from the start.
Graeme Wall
2013-06-04 21:02:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marc Van Dyck
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by iMark
Post by Marc Van Dyck
Post by iMark
After 2 days of no Fyra service from Amsterdam to Brussels because at
least 3 trains were damaged by blocks of ice, the Belgian Safety
Authority has banned Fyra from running in Belgium until further notice.
A part of a Fyra train was found along the tracks in Belgium.
It looks like Fyra is a continuous story of bad managment of bad trains.
A joint commitee of the Belgian and Dutch parliaments will organise
hearings to find out what went wrong with the project.
Meanwhile only Thalys trains will use the HSL. Regular travellers
between NL and B will have to change in Roosendaal and Essen.
It's all a disgrace and an example of the incompetence of the railway
companies involved.
http://media.rtl.nl/media/financien/rtlz/2013/NMBS-fyra.pdf
It is a press release issue by SNCB to explain their decision to
break the contract. There are quite impressive pictures of defects
in there, just have a look. Sorry the text is in dutch, there are
just a few paragraphs translated in english. But you'll get the idea...
This time it is definitely over.
Curious to see how NS will follow on this.
More importantly the Dutch Transport Ministry. They are up to their neck
in this fiasco. Will they have the guts to cancel the NS franchise for
running trains on the HSL Zuid? And are there any alternatives?
It's completely shambolic. The line has been fully operational since
2009 and all we have is a Thalys service and 160 km/h train to Rotterdam
and Breda and in Belgium an hourly service from Noorderkempen to
Antwerp.
This major underusage of very expensive infrastructure mainly to blame
on the Dutch government that didn't want the HSL Zuid to be integrated
in the regular Dutch network.
<mode="stir">
Can't they retrieve the various E* sets that are no longer used for
the 3 capitals service and cobble up a temporary high speed service
between Lille and Amsterdam? Even better extend the London-Brussels
service to Amsterdam.
Well, if I remember well, in February, Fyra ran a service every two
hours with 5 sets only. At least on paper, it worked. How many NOL sets
are still there collecting rust ? It might just be a bit difficult to
fit ETCS II and the 1.5 kV...
I was thinking more of the 3 Capitals sets that are in regular use on
SNCF domestic service, assuming they still are.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>
TimB
2013-06-05 03:41:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Marc Van Dyck
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by iMark
Post by Marc Van Dyck
Post by iMark
After 2 days of no Fyra service from Amsterdam to Brussels because at
least 3 trains were damaged by blocks of ice, the Belgian Safety
Authority has banned Fyra from running in Belgium until further
notice.
A part of a Fyra train was found along the tracks in Belgium.
It looks like Fyra is a continuous story of bad managment of bad
trains.
A joint commitee of the Belgian and Dutch parliaments will organise
hearings to find out what went wrong with the project.
Meanwhile only Thalys trains will use the HSL. Regular travellers
between NL and B will have to change in Roosendaal and Essen.
It's all a disgrace and an example of the incompetence of the railway
companies involved.
http://media.rtl.nl/media/financien/rtlz/2013/NMBS-fyra.pdf
It is a press release issue by SNCB to explain their decision to
break the contract. There are quite impressive pictures of defects
in there, just have a look. Sorry the text is in dutch, there are
just a few paragraphs translated in english. But you'll get the idea...
This time it is definitely over.
Curious to see how NS will follow on this.
More importantly the Dutch Transport Ministry. They are up to their neck
in this fiasco. Will they have the guts to cancel the NS franchise for
running trains on the HSL Zuid? And are there any alternatives?
It's completely shambolic. The line has been fully operational since
2009 and all we have is a Thalys service and 160 km/h train to Rotterdam
and Breda and in Belgium an hourly service from Noorderkempen to
Antwerp.
This major underusage of very expensive infrastructure mainly to blame
on the Dutch government that didn't want the HSL Zuid to be integrated
in the regular Dutch network.
<mode="stir">
Can't they retrieve the various E* sets that are no longer used for
the 3 capitals service and cobble up a temporary high speed service
between Lille and Amsterdam? Even better extend the London-Brussels
service to Amsterdam.
Well, if I remember well, in February, Fyra ran a service every two
hours with 5 sets only. At least on paper, it worked. How many NOL sets
are still there collecting rust ? It might just be a bit difficult to
fit ETCS II and the 1.5 kV...
I was thinking more of the 3 Capitals sets that are in regular use on
SNCF domestic service, assuming they still are.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>
< in regular use > = not available.
Tim
Graeme Wall
2013-06-05 06:28:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by TimB
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Marc Van Dyck
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by iMark
Post by Marc Van Dyck
Post by iMark
After 2 days of no Fyra service from Amsterdam to Brussels because at
least 3 trains were damaged by blocks of ice, the Belgian Safety
Authority has banned Fyra from running in Belgium until further
notice.
A part of a Fyra train was found along the tracks in Belgium.
It looks like Fyra is a continuous story of bad managment of bad
trains.
A joint commitee of the Belgian and Dutch parliaments will organise
hearings to find out what went wrong with the project.
Meanwhile only Thalys trains will use the HSL. Regular travellers
between NL and B will have to change in Roosendaal and Essen.
It's all a disgrace and an example of the incompetence of the railway
companies involved.
http://media.rtl.nl/media/financien/rtlz/2013/NMBS-fyra.pdf
It is a press release issue by SNCB to explain their decision to
break the contract. There are quite impressive pictures of defects
in there, just have a look. Sorry the text is in dutch, there are
just a few paragraphs translated in english. But you'll get the idea...
This time it is definitely over.
Curious to see how NS will follow on this.
More importantly the Dutch Transport Ministry. They are up to their neck
in this fiasco. Will they have the guts to cancel the NS franchise for
running trains on the HSL Zuid? And are there any alternatives?
It's completely shambolic. The line has been fully operational since
2009 and all we have is a Thalys service and 160 km/h train to Rotterdam
and Breda and in Belgium an hourly service from Noorderkempen to
Antwerp.
This major underusage of very expensive infrastructure mainly to blame
on the Dutch government that didn't want the HSL Zuid to be integrated
in the regular Dutch network.
<mode="stir">
Can't they retrieve the various E* sets that are no longer used for
the 3 capitals service and cobble up a temporary high speed service
between Lille and Amsterdam? Even better extend the London-Brussels
service to Amsterdam.
Well, if I remember well, in February, Fyra ran a service every two
hours with 5 sets only. At least on paper, it worked. How many NOL sets
are still there collecting rust ? It might just be a bit difficult to
fit ETCS II and the 1.5 kV...
I was thinking more of the 3 Capitals sets that are in regular use on
SNCF domestic service, assuming they still are.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>
< in regular use > = not available.
Tim
You are Roland Perry AICMFP.

Do a deal to swap for the loco-hauled sets. We are dealing with
fantasies here.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>
Nick Fotis
2013-06-05 14:14:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
<mode="stir">
Can't they retrieve the various E* sets that are no longer used for the
3 capitals service and cobble up a temporary high speed service between
Lille and Amsterdam? Even better extend the London-Brussels service to
Amsterdam.
Personally, I would (if I was NS and had good relations with SNCB) ask
SNCB to lease some of their Class 18 and 200 km/h wagons, as an interim
solution (the 160 km/h TRAXXes are already covering a large part of the
Fyra service, if I am not mistaken)

Another solution would be to buy the remaining stock ES64U4 (I think
there are still three of these), with a view to resell these later.
These are 230 km/h machines, and (I think) these can run on NS and SNCB
rails.

N.F.
Marc Van Dyck
2013-06-05 16:26:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
<mode="stir">
Can't they retrieve the various E* sets that are no longer used for the
3 capitals service and cobble up a temporary high speed service between
Lille and Amsterdam? Even better extend the London-Brussels service to
Amsterdam.
Personally, I would (if I was NS and had good relations with SNCB) ask SNCB
to lease some of their Class 18 and 200 km/h wagons, as an interim solution
(the 160 km/h TRAXXes are already covering a large part of the Fyra service,
if I am not mistaken)
Another solution would be to buy the remaining stock ES64U4 (I think there
are still three of these), with a view to resell these later. These are 230
km/h machines, and (I think) these can run on NS and SNCB rails.
N.F.
Class 18 locs could probably be diverted for this but I11 stock is in
short supply and already used on services where 200 km/h capability is
needed. It could be possible to upgrade some I6/I10 stock for 200 km/h
(some already is) but how much time would this take ?
--
Marc Van Dyck
Nick Fotis
2013-06-05 19:22:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marc Van Dyck
Class 18 locs could probably be diverted for this but I11 stock is in
short supply and already used on services where 200 km/h capability is
needed. It could be possible to upgrade some I6/I10 stock for 200 km/h
(some already is) but how much time would this take ?
well, there are 200 km/h wagons all over Europe (even OSE in Greece has
dozens of these underutilized), but locomotives suitable for both 1500
VDC and 25 kV AC are not easy to find in short notice.

The only locomotives I can think of at the moment are the class 18 and
the 'stock' Siemens ES64U4 (maybe some could be procured from other
operators). Waiting 1+ year for delivery of 200 km/h Vectrons or TRAXXes
is another solution, but the rules and regulations for doing such a bid
would mean one extra year of delay. In contrast, borrowing or leasing
rolling stock between state-owned operators does not have to go through
many hurdles.

N.F.
Erwan David
2013-06-05 21:21:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Fotis
Post by Marc Van Dyck
Class 18 locs could probably be diverted for this but I11 stock is in
short supply and already used on services where 200 km/h capability is
needed. It could be possible to upgrade some I6/I10 stock for 200 km/h
(some already is) but how much time would this take ?
well, there are 200 km/h wagons all over Europe (even OSE in Greece
has dozens of these underutilized), but locomotives suitable for both
1500 VDC and 25 kV AC are not easy to find in short notice.
The only locomotives I can think of at the moment are the class 18 and
the 'stock' Siemens ES64U4 (maybe some could be procured from other
operators). Waiting 1+ year for delivery of 200 km/h Vectrons or
TRAXXes is another solution, but the rules and regulations for doing
such a bid would mean one extra year of delay. In contrast, borrowing
or leasing rolling stock between state-owned operators does not have
to go through many hurdles.
Fret SNCF may have some BB 22200 or 26000 that they do not use very
much.

23000 also, but those lack heating capability.
--
Les simplifications c'est trop compliqué
tobias b koehler
2013-06-06 18:17:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Erwan David
Fret SNCF may have some BB 22200 or 26000 that they do not use very
much.
I don't think they can deal with 3000 V DC as found on classic Belgian
lines.

And I'm not sure if the ES64U4 is approved for Netherlands and Belgium,
I have never seen them there.

According to
http://www.railcolor.net/index.php?nav=1406894&lang=1#.UbDI_kBM88k
Siemens still has four ES64U4 for sale (as of march 2013).

Theoretically NS ICR coaches could be upgraded for 200 km/h as their
bogies are basically the same as those of Corail coaches. (I'm actually
not sure what exactly the difference of 200 km/h Corail coaches is, they
don't have the yaw dampers that 200 km/h Eurofima coaches with Fiat
bogies have.)

That would be an interim solution for 200 km/h. Looking at what would be
a good future solution for 250 km/h we can see that the Fyra was
designed for high capacity, and the ICX being developed for Deutsche
Bahn is going into a similar direction, just with different electric and
signalling systems, perhaps it could be a variant of that one.
Erwan David
2013-06-06 18:43:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by tobias b koehler
Post by Erwan David
Fret SNCF may have some BB 22200 or 26000 that they do not use very
much.
I don't think they can deal with 3000 V DC as found on classic Belgian
lines.
No, I w as thinking 1500 V...

Maybe there are dual current 3kV+25kV in Italy ?
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Les simplifications c'est trop compliqué
Marc Van Dyck
2013-06-06 19:55:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Fotis
Post by Marc Van Dyck
Class 18 locs could probably be diverted for this but I11 stock is in
short supply and already used on services where 200 km/h capability is
needed. It could be possible to upgrade some I6/I10 stock for 200 km/h
(some already is) but how much time would this take ?
well, there are 200 km/h wagons all over Europe (even OSE in Greece has
dozens of these underutilized), but locomotives suitable for both 1500 VDC
and 25 kV AC are not easy to find in short notice.
The only locomotives I can think of at the moment are the class 18 and the
'stock' Siemens ES64U4 (maybe some could be procured from other operators).
Waiting 1+ year for delivery of 200 km/h Vectrons or TRAXXes is another
solution, but the rules and regulations for doing such a bid would mean one
extra year of delay. In contrast, borrowing or leasing rolling stock between
state-owned operators does not have to go through many hurdles.
N.F.
Actually, you need 1.5kV, 3kV, and 25 kV.
Which is a problem even with the belgian class 18 because the 1.5kV
capability, although present, has never been validated. So forget about
immediate availability.
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Marc Van Dyck
Erwan David
2013-06-06 19:58:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marc Van Dyck
Post by Nick Fotis
Post by Marc Van Dyck
Class 18 locs could probably be diverted for this but I11 stock is in
short supply and already used on services where 200 km/h capability is
needed. It could be possible to upgrade some I6/I10 stock for 200 km/h
(some already is) but how much time would this take ?
well, there are 200 km/h wagons all over Europe (even OSE in Greece
has dozens of these underutilized), but locomotives suitable for
both 1500 VDC and 25 kV AC are not easy to find in short notice.
The only locomotives I can think of at the moment are the class 18
and the 'stock' Siemens ES64U4 (maybe some could be procured from
other operators). Waiting 1+ year for delivery of 200 km/h Vectrons
or TRAXXes is another solution, but the rules and regulations for
doing such a bid would mean one extra year of delay. In contrast,
borrowing or leasing rolling stock between state-owned operators
does not have to go through many hurdles.
N.F.
Actually, you need 1.5kV, 3kV, and 25 kV.
Which is a problem even with the belgian class 18 because the 1.5kV
capability, although present, has never been validated. So forget about
immediate availability.
That only leaves some TGV trainsets, but I doubt they are available.
--
Les simplifications c'est trop compliqué
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